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things
ip: 213.18.248.16 |
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| Maybe some of you are scapegoats but it strikes me that you are doing exactly what you are complaining about. That is, passing blame for the unfortunate circumstances and occurences in your lives. One can only move on from anything if responsibility is taken and a desire to improve is found. Often the feeling that one is the scapegoat can degenerate into wallowing in self-pity. |
| Date: 23 Jun, 2004 on 12:13 p.m. |
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Pollyanna
ip: 67.69.158.223 |
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| Your comments 'can' be true in some cases. In many I would suggest that learning you have been scapegoated (usually for years) can be very painful and it takes time to digest the information and the feelings. Becoming aware, mourning your losses, recognizing and confronting the behavior against you and finally realizing that you are not the 'bad' guy takes time, courage and perseverance. I disagree that feelings of self-pity are a big part of the dynamics. A little empathy would be helpful to those struggling, not bullying. |
| Date: 24 Jun, 2004 on 02:34 a.m. |
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goat
ip: 152.163.100.199 |
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The words "passing the blame" is a short phrase that actually represents a much longer phrase for people "in the know".
It actually means:
"passing the blame onto innocent other people for things you actually did yourself."
In other words, lying.
It's ok to pass the blame onto the people who are really guilty. It's not ok to pass the blame onto innocent people.
I'm sure you've heard about people being framed for things they didn't do. That is wrong.
However, it is not wrong to put the blame where it truly should be, and that is on the guilty.
Scapegoaters do something evil, then blame others for it. Scapegoatee, are being framed for something they didn't do and are are upset. Wouldn't you be upset if you got accussed of something you didn't do?
It's ok to shift blame onto the guilty. It is not ok to shift blame onto the innocent.
The fact that you cannot tell the difference, might indiciate that you have not experienced being framed, or that you are a scapegoater and cannot relate to what it feels like to be on the other end. You do not understand what it is like to be accused, hated, blamed, etc. of a crime you did not commit. Perhaps, you are narcisstic, lacking empathy. If you can't tell the difference between between shifting blame on guilty and shifting blame onto the innocent, then you are not a deep thinker, or sympathetic. You only see "shifting blame." Period. Finish the sentence.
things (23 Jun, 2004 12:13 p.m.):
Maybe some of you are scapegoats but it strikes me that you are doing exactly what you are complaining about. That is, passing blame for the unfortunate circumstances and occurences in your lives. One can only move on from anything if responsibility is taken and a desire to improve is found. Often the feeling that one is the scapegoat can degenerate into wallowing in self-pity.
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| Date: 09 Jul, 2005 on 07:11 a.m. |
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cat
ip: 24.217.160.135 |
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I wonder why you came to this sight. surely it wasnt to blame the victim  was it |
| Date: 18 Oct, 2005 on 02:16 a.m. |
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HardToBelieve
ip: 62.69.38.209 |
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| I'm guessing that 'things' is a close family member of a scapegoat - not the actual scapegoater, who is usually a parent, but a brother or sister perhaps. Scapegoaters are too deeply entrenched in their behaviour even to admit or argue about it. Their behaviour is SO unnatural, destructive and unjustified that they HAVE TO convince themselves and those around them that the scapegoat is 'bad' - hence the lies we all discover. A scapegoater would not say 'Get used to it' because that would imply recognition of the injustice. They would be far more likely to justify the abuse as 'deserved' or even walk away from it with phrases like (and I quote from my own mother/scapegoater) 'Don't involve me in your analysis - I'm too old to cope with changes'. On the other hand siblings of a scapegoat are in a different position. They lead a charmed life. Family problems or accidents are never their fault, and they get first choice of any goodies going - like education, financial support after leaving home etc. etc. They may well, in their hearts, know that the situation is unjust. They really do not have any idea of the pain and damage being done. And they don't want to rock the boat, after all they may well lose their privileges - or even end up being subjected to the same pain and rejection we all have. It may well be that this person has been persuaded by a scapegoat sister or brother to look at this site in an effort to explain and understand a family situation, but the old instinct of 'Stop complaining - get used to it' has taken over Little do they realise that being a scapegoat leaves you so damaged and lacking in inner strength and confidence that such advice is not just an impossible 'Counsel of Perfection' but another, very painful, rejection of the scapegoat as being 'undeserving'. |
| Date: 15 Nov, 2005 on 10:27 a.m. |
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andy
ip: 202.173.178.218 |
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| It has been a year since I disciovered thsi site and I was ina abad way. I have been in counselling for about 2 months now, where I cried about stuff I thought just made me angry. It always feels better to read the stories here because peopel seem to understand the plight of a scapegoated person. However I now have a po9int of view, especially from hearing these stories, that the battle is one of communication - not to the siblings or the scapegoater, but to the outside world. The battle is not with the aggressor, or teh siblings who watched, did nothing and profited from the "blameless": stance that they had, but from teh outside world. Like someone said on this post, the scapegoater convinces OTHER people we are bad, not just us. They are MANIPULATING, and they ad their own spin on things, and they perhaps are good at it. We all know that lawyers are great at this and that it is teh currency in many large corporate workplaces. I have had to become better at "protecting" myself. As an example I confronted my mother (scapegoater) about 10 years ago, and her reactions was to be REALLY nice to me, and to start giving me some of teh things that she always shopuld have. Becauise I was only 23 at teh time and these were the things that I had craved for all my life, I accepted them, which means you "sell out" or take "gag money" to shut up. When you get older, you realise that your soul, the truth is more important than any gifts they can now give you. I encourage everyone to not give up, to fight (metaphorically) for your own reputations, and if someone is maligning that, then find how to hit back. There is more bullying than physically, and bullies pick on the weak, get strong and inspire! |
| Date: 22 Nov, 2005 on 06:58 a.m. |
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andy
ip: 202.173.178.218 |
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just as an ad on- if you read Bransons losing my Virginity you can see that his whole journey has been about defending his reputation, through the courts, through written communication (my way) through tape recordings/setting traps. Guys you MUST find a way to get one up on your attacker! and then write about it and inspire us! Yes they have done so much damage over time because they could talk before we could, and as kids we never had a chance. I felt my parents sought to destroy any success that I had because that meant that I would become a "trusted" person by society and could "blow their cover". So I estranged myself from them. Hard to do. But for an egg to incubate it needs to be safe from harm. I am practicing my communication. One day I will launch it all back on them, communication wise. Guys, you haven't felt the feeling of "winning" for so long that you forget what it feels like. Try to "feed" your soul through producing some wins.
And believe me, it is very hard to do life without family blessing, very very hard. But at least we are not trapped in what they want us to do. a lot of this seems to be upper middle class as well, mine was. Smart enough to be terribly manipulating and to notget caught. Be cooler than them, succeed in your life, and find teh energy to work hard and focus on something. The rewards are love for the planet itself and a feeling of self worth, what we all want. As you can see, I am a "helper"! |
| Date: 22 Nov, 2005 on 07:10 a.m. |
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andy
ip: 211.29.52.76 |
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I read my message above and it sounds "revenge focussed". I certainly didnt mean it that way, it also sounds angry. I now feel that yes I was scapegoated and that the result of this was to
-lose self esteem
-be less confident
-have a victim mentality
I feel that I had a need for "self power" because so much power had been taken away by all the put downs and that I tried to obtain that power by intimidating people in an intellectual way. I was angry at the past but am pleased to say that I am not so angry at it anymore. I still get used and then get angry at myself and the perpetrator. Its this equalizing thing - youre a doormat for so lomng then you realize and are angry and act out for a while then you 'come to terms' and start to learn to be assertive, which is where I am at now, finally the anger is dying down. I agree that scapegoating by parents needs to be exposed because they dont realise the damage that they do. I have been to a few good assertiveness sites, one of which is
http://mentalhelp.net/psyhelp/chap13/chap13e.htm which shows you how to act assertively, which stops the doormat situation which stops the anger. Love to all on this site! |
| Date: 19 Feb, 2006 on 11:13 a.m. |
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Lee
ip: 70.144.132.157 |
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things (23 Jun, 2004 12:13 p.m.):
Maybe some of you are scapegoats but it strikes me that you are doing exactly what you are complaining about. That is, passing blame for the unfortunate circumstances and occurences in your lives. One can only move on from anything if responsibility is taken and a desire to improve is found. Often the feeling that one is the scapegoat can degenerate into wallowing in self-pity.
Very interesting post. Sorry, I posted this as an opening post accidentally, this is really a reply.
Actually, the scapegoat is so disinclined to attribute blame to others, and actually has such a need to be fair that what you are suggesting is just about the opposite of true. I do agree though that the scapegoat has to take the responsibility for his own life and recognize the traits that make him a magnet for this. Frankly, the desire to get along, be fair, take responsibilities for our actions, is maybe the trait that makes us vulnerable.
I for the first time recognized that this is clearly an issue in my life, and it is up to me to change it. One thing I must do is recognize that my polly anna attitude is making me vulnerable.
I sometimes, as we all do, deserve the blame. What we are discussing here is an irresistable impluse in some to single out an individual in a group to carry the blame and shame for what ever negative is happening in the group. This kind of blame is irrational and very hurtful. It is actually a way for the scapegoater to avoid blame for their own conduct.
Sometimes in my life, and I know this is really sick, I have taken on someone elses guilt willingly, just because it was easier than dealing with their inability to face the fact that they to were inperfect. I now am beginning to understand that this is very very wrong. I may be preventing that person from growing and facing themselves, and I make myself out to be some kind of sin bearer. That job is already complete, and those shoes are filled by the one Person qualified.
So, lets take a look at scapegoating in a very rudimentory way. There is a small group of children on the playground. In comes the potential scapegoat, wants to play, make friends, have fun. Like any child, she has her good traits and bad. But she also has a need. Enter the scapegoater. Wants to play, make friends, have fun. She also has her good traits and bad. But she also has a need.
Could you all help me, what are the two needs that set this dynamic into motion? |
| Date: 13 Mar, 2006 on 05:24 a.m. |
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Don't be a fool!
ip: 4.252.35.91 |
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| Some form of ego inflation is going to happen when we go on message boards to get others to say we are right. But this euphoria should be short lived in anyone but a narcissistic personality. Because we should all know that in life we have not been right at every turn, only a narcissist would continue his ego trip when on message boards the members only pat you on the back for whatever you say. This being a discussion board related to Scapegoating, it is easy to understand the members wanting to be believed in whole and thus praised and absolved of involvement in their own foul situations. This forum is rather a great –albeit superficial- place to talk when the members don’t know if you are telling your story straight or biased toward your own innocence; this as opposed to talking to those live persons with whom you have issues –those persons who might know other sides of your story and confront you with them which could result in the end of your perfection ego trip. The almighty ego trip being a foundation for problem, the question arises: Is this forum, then, good for people who feel they have been scapegoated? Or does it simply strengthen a false reservation that you are completely right, thus hurting the possibility of resolving your feeling of being scapegoated? Those who feel they have been scapegoated need to take a step back and realize that in every untruth the scapegoater tells about the victim there is most likely some truth in what they say, at least in view point. Those who feel they have been scapegoated then need to not search for an ego boost of approval, but rather search for understanding of the process by which scapegoating was allowed to happen. In that process, I am sure you will find “It takes two to tango”. Some want to blame the scapegoater entirely and have others empathize blindly. This is clue number one that one is in search of an ego boost and not in search of resolution. Hence, a forum such as this one can become a place where we actually scapegoat our scapegoaters; and doesn’t this then make you one of them? Or does it make you an egomaniac narcissist with whom family and friends are tired of hearing about your perfection while blaming everyone else for not cow-towing to your need for feeling perfect when you are, in fact, the master of your own fate? A discussion forum normally is a place where things are discussed for value and understanding. This board seems to be a place where such options are limited. This board seems to be full of people who want to be right at every turn and not be challenged to introspect. This board encourages selfish behavior and self-serving ideals as well as promotes personality imbalance by means of blind ego boosting. This is not good! Such remarks as: You are a good person; you have a good heart; love you, etc are invalid uses of this board in that they only serve to boost ego and cater to NPO, and that is not what resolution is about. YOU DO NOT KNOW THESE PEOPLE OR THEIR FAMILIES! The bottom line is, if you are looking for an ego boost you are most likely part of your problem with others. And I see the whole lot of you current posters being here simply to be told you are awesome! Check yourselves at the door! |
| Date: 31 Dec, 2006 on 02:57 p.m. |
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