I'm not particularly happy to do this, because, although most of the damage caused by early scapegoating has, for me, been helped by a wise and appropriate counsellor, I still have the nervous reactions we probably all have. SO - If anyone wants to hit back aggressively, I'll just have to live with that as I value this board as a resource for scapegoats, but also see that it could be misused and cause further damage to those who need the forum the most.

I guess my thoughts are twofold. Firstly I will address Villianized, and secondly some more general comments to everyone.

Villianized:

May I suggest that you read and think about the articles on the scapegoat site again. Some of your postings and stories do not, to me, indicate scapegoating. I have not really responded to this before as you may well be truly unhappy with your family relationships and are trying to understand and improve your situation, but whilst I do sympathise with anyone's pain, I am not in a position to give you much in the way of support. I'll try not to pussyfoot around here and risk a long, woolly post, so I'll just state that I am NOT a qualified psychologist, and then state my case directly, nervous as it makes me.

My main reason for wondering if you are working on the wrong problem is that you seem to mention conflicts between other members of your family, different people being 'scapegoated' at different times, and your mother's tendency to side with one person and then with another. In fact your situation seems to be to be a confusing whirlpool of stirred up negative emotions.

The true 'scapegoating' environment is, actually, very serene and peaceful. Scapegoating allows everyone in the family to be confident, fulfilled and conflict free, both within the family and with the outside world. All members engage constructively and happily with the others - except the scapegoat. That is the essence of scapegoating. One family member is the target of all the negativity, anger and frustration of the others, so they (the other family members) can negotiate all their other personal relationships without ever feeling anger or aggression. I never, ever saw any argument whatsoever between my mother, father or sister, and the few conflicts there were with the extended family were conducted serenely, quietly and without lasting damage.

Secondly, you do indeed come across as a very, very angry person. Your posts about family incidents and those in reponse to others on this forum are bitter and aggresive in tone, and your frequent use of the capitalised (shouted) HAHA reinforces the impression. Scapegoats rarely laugh about arguments. Arguments are both frightening and depressing because scapegoats are TAUGHT that they are the only ones who are in the wrong. Everyone else is nice and would be happy if it weren't for them (the scapegoat) being a nuisance or misbehaving. We don't laugh, we're thankful if the argument is resolved without too much abuse, and incredibly relieved if, and when, we come to understand and accept that it is the weakness, fear and pain of others that leads to their unjust behaviour.

As a (hopefully) positive suggestion, can I suggest you read "I'm OK, You're OK" by Thomas A. Harris. I see from UK Amazon that it is now rather dated, and there are other, more recent, publications on the subject of 'Transactional Analysis'. The reason for my recommendation is that I cannot help getting the impression that there is a strong current of 'I'm not OK, you're not OK' in your posts; and I wonder if there is a culture of 'not OK' in your family and you realise it is destructive; alternatively it is just possible that I have hit on the truth and this forum is an ideal outlet for you to continue that behaviour. It isn't difficult to get a scapegoat into 'not OK' mode and some people do derive emotional re-inforcement from just that.

To ALL:
With more general regard to all the posters on this site, I think it might help ponder and recognise that as scapegoats we have spent our lives being condemned and misunderstood, and have usually been put down very hard in any attempts to stand up for ourselves.

The result is a real desire to be understood. This can trigger a drive to have the last word and thus convince ourselves that we have been understood and we need not feel lost and abused yet again.

It also leads to a difficulty in arguing calmly and constructively, if at all. We fear and expect to be abused, we are sensitised to criticism, and we react very, very defensively.

Both the above tendencies are very destructive of any new relationships we form. It is a vicious circle of reactions, each failed relationship re-inforcing our defensiveness and distrust of others.

So, if, each time we log on here, we remind ourselves that everyone else here shares the same experience. We are probably all of us hypersensitive and overreact - but we have the choice of continuing with the destructive attitudes and defences which have been bred into us, or tell ourselves that we are in the company of like-sufferers and WILL TRUST THEM.

We can use this act of will to stand back from any perceived offence and examine the points made. We can make a conscious decision to practice how to disagree without 'losing it' and how to agree to something difficult without feeling mortified (yet again).

We can also take time to 'identify' with others, seeing in their words and protests just how much we are all inclined to become defensive, overstate our arguments and hit back.

But really, I do see that I am different than the others on here...ironically or coincidentally, I had been considering making a thread about how maybe I am the only one on here to have been scapegoated by my family and the 'rest of you' are scapegoaters or else just hard to get along with. I thought that might be the case because for some reason people on here think it is normal behavior to see only one side of an issue, gang bang, and then not be able to stop making conversations about it in new threads.

I'm glad you spoke up, passing by past the discomfort.

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HardToBelieve (29 Jan, 2007 06:57 p.m.):
For some months I have not been active on this board because some of the postings have been making me uncomfortable. Issues seem to be coming to a head, so I will outline my thoughts here.

I'm not particularly happy to do this, because, although most of the damage caused by early scapegoating has, for me, been helped by a wise and appropriate counsellor, I still have the nervous reactions we probably all have. SO - If anyone wants to hit back aggressively, I'll just have to live with that as I value this board as a resource for scapegoats, but also see that it could be misused and cause further damage to those who need the forum the most.

I guess my thoughts are twofold. Firstly I will address Villianized, and secondly some more general comments to everyone.

Villianized:

May I suggest that you read and think about the articles on the scapegoat site again. Some of your postings and stories do not, to me, indicate scapegoating. I have not really responded to this before as you may well be truly unhappy with your family relationships and are trying to understand and improve your situation, but whilst I do sympathise with anyone's pain, I am not in a position to give you much in the way of support. I'll try not to pussyfoot around here and risk a long, woolly post, so I'll just state that I am NOT a qualified psychologist, and then state my case directly, nervous as it makes me.

My main reason for wondering if you are working on the wrong problem is that you seem to mention conflicts between other members of your family, different people being 'scapegoated' at different times, and your mother's tendency to side with one person and then with another. In fact your situation seems to be to be a confusing whirlpool of stirred up negative emotions.

The true 'scapegoating' environment is, actually, very serene and peaceful. Scapegoating allows everyone in the family to be confident, fulfilled and conflict free, both within the family and with the outside world. All members engage constructively and happily with the others - except the scapegoat. That is the essence of scapegoating. One family member is the target of all the negativity, anger and frustration of the others, so they (the other family members) can negotiate all their other personal relationships without ever feeling anger or aggression. I never, ever saw any argument whatsoever between my mother, father or sister, and the few conflicts there were with the extended family were conducted serenely, quietly and without lasting damage.

/cont

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I wondered what happened to you and thank you for returning to share your experience and wisdom with us.

I read your posts quickly and was late for work because once I began, I couldn't stop. Now, ice pack on my burned hand (I cook) I've read your words a couple of times and will read them again. I have a suggestion: take a little credit for your own wisdom and appropriate behaviour. Your counsellor couldn't have done it without you.

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whitesheep (30 Jan, 2007 04:57 a.m.):
HardToBelieve:

I have a suggestion: take a little credit for your own wisdom and appropriate behaviour. Your counsellor couldn't have done it without you.

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Ta for the compliment. Neither could I have done it without her. It certainly was a joint exercise. Hard work and sometimes painful, but she was the lady who pointed me to the right things to look at and think about.

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whitesheep (30 Jan, 2007 04:57 a.m.):
My boy Scott Peck says love is the will to extend oneself to help oneself or another grow spiritually.

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