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Loner
ip: 82.15.1.174 |
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| On this journey of recovery that we are all on, I wonder if anyone else is experiencing the same things as me. Whilst trying to shake off the shame that I have always felt, I am now starting to see my true self. As well as good things, Im discovering all sorts of flaws I didnt realise I had and am also understanding why I sometimes act in the way I do. For example: I have never been very good at meeting knew people, hopeless in fact, but never really understood why. Now I see how I have acted and Im not surprised I have not had much success!! I started my job about a year ago and I look back now at how eager I was to prove myself. I was so desperate to prove I was a good person that I must have been quite irritating - I cringe now as I think about it. Of course, the reason I acted like that is because it was a learnt behaviour pattern within my family - constantly trying to prove my parents wrong, but no matter how I tried they just wouldnt see it. This isnt the only thing, I notice that when I see people I vaguely know, but not know that well, I pretend not to see them - I have been told on more that one occasion that I give the impression that I am stuck up, but in fact the opposite is true, I just assume the other person wont be interested in talking to me so I hide away. Obviously again this is something I learnt from childhood, the more you hid away, the less likely you were to be scapegoated. I wonder if anyone else has noticed things about their behaviour? A behaviour that was maybe automatic/subconscious and learnt in childhood and yet now during recovery you are able to identify the reasons why you behave that way. Learning these things is a good thing, its a sign that we are able to accept ourselves as we are, we are allowed to have flaws and be human. The more we understand it, the more we can undo the damage. |
| Date: 29 Mar, 2007 on 09:58 p.m. |
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Angel
ip: 207.200.116.72 |
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Loner --
Shaking off shame, which isn't your true self, & now seeing our own flaws(not someone else's), sounds normal/human. I think the kink/block comes when we get our feelings of being blamed unjustly for others wrongs CONFUSED, with OUR accepting responsibility for OUR behavior. I've done that! Then when I understand what's happening and know that my wrong behavior doesn't make me a monster like the Jaraseek Park childhood family I feel relaxed and human again. You said alot of things with substance and if no one else responds I'll write more later.
(April/Dee's response to Loner's post below)
I sure do admire your honesty. You are straight and direct and in my book that makes you one of the special ones whose heart is right when everything else might be wrong. Yea for you and keep up the good work!
(Loner's post) For example: I have never been very good at meeting knew people, hopeless in fact, but never really understood why. Now I see how I have acted and Im not surprised I have not had much success!! I started my job about a year ago and I look back now at how eager I was to prove myself. I was so desperate to prove I was a good person that I must have been quite irritating - I cringe now as I think about it. Of course, the reason I acted like that is because it was a learnt behaviour pattern within my family - constantly trying to prove my parents wrong, but no matter how I tried they just wouldnt see it. |
| Date: 30 Mar, 2007 on 01:09 a.m. |
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HardToBelieve
ip: 62.69.37.13 |
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Loner
You are not alone in either of these difficulties. I'm just the same. I've ALWAYS worked too hard - because I'm afraid of the danger of rejection and losing my job. It's the childhood fear of never being 'good' enough to be loved, and always living in danger of being rejected and excluded; and for young children that is very frightening, because they are so totally dependent upon their parents.It's important to work on this. Try not to let your hard work show too much, and learn to have the courage to admit any mistakes, or missed deliveries of work, etc. The risk of being too good at your job is that you will alienate others; colleagues will resent you and bosses may even feel threatened by you. The result is job insecurity and a re-inforcement of your feelings of fear and exclusion. It's a good tactic to take a little time to relax to get to know your colleagues. (see my last paragraph) The other problem of being so painfully 'shy' and socially clumsy that you simply ignore people you only know slightly has the same cause - the ever-present fear of being found 'imperfect' and therefore liable to be an unwanted intrusion by others. Again, early childhood experience left me with the 'knowledge' that I was not worthy to be recognised by others, and was just a nuisance, an interruption and a waste of time whenever I wanted to talk with other family members. As adults we can now give ourselves permission to look others in the face and be recognised. We can give ourselves permission to approach others and expect to be welcomed. Work out, write down, and become thoroughly familiar with, a list of topics for you to chat with people. It can start with the easy things, such as the weather; than move on to subjects of general interest - recent events in the area, popular films and TV, local sports teams; and, in time, move on to more personal stuff - hobbies, families, holidays, and so on. Look around you and decide who comes across as open and friendly and possibly on your wave length, and then develop a real interest in them. When trying to get to know people it really is easier if you try to concentrate on THEM. Share a bit of your own news and interests with them too. EVERYBODY likes it when someone takes a real and genuine interest in them. We all want friends, we all want to be liked and we all love it when people show an interest in us. That applies to everyone we meet as much as it applies to ourselves. Always remember that - remember to BE interested in the other person, and you should find yourself feeling less awkward. It is hard work at first - but will improve with practice. |
| Date: 30 Mar, 2007 on 02:46 a.m. |
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Angel
ip: 207.200.116.72 |
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HardToBelieve --
When I share my life with someone & they share their life with me in return I consider that helpful, hopefully to both of us. They could even throw in how they would have handled my situation, but when I'm getting advice that I haven't asked for, I feel like that person now is trying to teach me and the sharing stops. I've given some examples below of what I believe is good sharing and then what sounds like advice.(HardToBelieve's post to Loner that sounds like advice)
It's important to work on this. Try not to let your hard work show too much, and learn to have the courage to admit any mistakes, or missed deliveries of work, etc. The risk of being too good at your job is that you will alienate others; colleagues will resent you and bosses may even feel threatened by you. The result is job insecurity and a re-inforcement of your feelings of fear and exclusion. It's a good tactic to take a little time to relax to get to know your colleagues. (see my last paragraph) (HardToBelieve's post to Loner that I consider good sharing) Again, early childhood experience left me with the 'knowledge' that I was not worthy to be recognised by others, and was just a nuisance, an interruption and a waste of time whenever I wanted to talk with other family members. As adults we can now give ourselves permission to look others in the face and be recognised. We can give ourselves permission to approach others and expect to be welcomed. |
| Date: 30 Mar, 2007 on 06:10 a.m. |
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Loner
ip: 82.15.1.174 |
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| Thanks Angel, it feels good not to have to hide my true feelings. Being honest with myself is the only way to learn from all this. Accepting the responsibility for my behaviour feels good too - I feel like an adult at last!! In childhood I would avoid responsibility as much as I could in order to avoid trouble. Now Im free to accept responsibility and learn from it.
[quote]Angel (30 Mar, 2007 01:09 a.m.):
Loner --
Shaking off shame, which isn't your true self, & now seeing our own flaws(not someone else's), sounds normal/human. I think the kink/block comes when we get our feelings of being blamed unjustly for others wrongs CONFUSED, with OUR accepting responsibility for OUR behavior.
(April/Dee's response to Loner's post below)
I sure do admire your honesty. You are straight and direct and in my book that makes you one of the special ones whose heart is right when everything else might be wrong. Yea for you and keep up the good work!
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| Date: 30 Mar, 2007 on 08:37 p.m. |
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Loner
ip: 82.15.1.174 |
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| Thanks HTB Being interested in other people is something I find hard - its not that Im not interested, when alone I find myself wondering about people. When face to face my shyness takes over and all I can think about is how I am coming across to people. The situation at work is ok now, they are used to me! It took about 6 months but I get on ok with most of them now. It does usually take a long time before I can relax with people though, but now I am learning why so hope to get better at this. Thanks for your tips, I will give it a try when meeting new people and Im sure it will get easier once I learn to like myself more. I am enjoying this stage of my recovery, I am starting to recognise all my "odd" behaviour and see that there is a reason for it. This is a actually quite a relief, I see that I merely reacted to my childhood, and Im not just wierd like I have often thought in the past. The reason for my post was that I was just curious if anyone else had been on this journey, you answered that for me. I also wondered what behaviour flaws anyone else might have had, Im sure I still have some yet to discover.
HardToBelieve (30 Mar, 2007 02:46 a.m.):Look around you and decide who comes across as open and friendly and possibly on your wave length, and then develop a real interest in them. When trying to get to know people it really is easier if you try to concentrate on THEM. Share a bit of your own news and interests with them too. EVERYBODY likes it when someone takes a real and genuine interest in them. We all want friends, we all want to be liked and we all love it when people show an interest in us. That applies to everyone we meet as much as it applies to ourselves. Always remember that - remember to BE interested in the other person, and you should find yourself feeling less awkward. It is hard work at first - but will improve with practice.
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| Date: 30 Mar, 2007 on 08:46 p.m. |
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Angel
ip: 207.200.116.72 |
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Loner --
Aren't you the one who stood up for Dee Ann/Angel
when you saw her being bullied? You didn't just stand up once but many times. In my book, I would call that being interested in someone else. 
Taking 6 months to relax(in a new job) and now everyone knows you sounds to me like someone I would like. Well - I do like you so you are that girl(oops) so that makes sense. lol I believe most people are thinking about themselves most of the time when face to face with someone, even if that person has trained skills to make it look like they're interested in the other person. For example one time I had a rash on my face and these administrators came to my work place to evaluate me/employees. I talked to this lady before they came about my rash and she said "Don't worry, they will be thinking more about themselves than about you" so when the DAY CAME - the visiting administrator woman came up to me & said first thing "I'm so embarassed with this sun burn I have" and I had to laugh(he he) because we were both only thinking about ourselves. I didn't notice her sunburn until she mentioned it to me, and I'm positive she didn't notice my face rash either. The lady I talked to first was so right. There is a saying, "Some people care about other people, but not that much". I believe that and don't think it's really a bad thing, because I can now get interested in them, actually sharing what we have in common, instead of trying to get them to like me by being interested in them.
You are so sweet. Odd(not saying you are) is good when combined with sweet, in my opinion.
What my flaw is that I put up with someone longer
than I should because I find it hard to believe they're really as mean as they appear to me, and that there might be a soft side there somewhere. But I've found out, over the years, that some people are just broken behind their walls of protection. The lights can be on but nobody is home with some, and when walls are removed there's a giant rock with no heart available to
connect to. Sometimes these broken people types I've known have warm behaviors they've copied from others disguising the ROCK behind the wall.
I'm getting better able to recognize and cut loose
these types of broken people where you could even give them a compliment and they'd take your head off. Nothing works with them because they are broken. Does that make sense?(Loner's post) I also wondered what behaviour flaws anyone else might have had, Im sure I still have some yet to discover. |
| Date: 30 Mar, 2007 on 09:59 p.m. |
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Loner
ip: 82.15.1.174 |
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| Bless you Dee and thanks for your kindness (sorry just cant get used to calling you Angel, I will keep trying!). You are so right about asking questions to try and make people like you - that behaviour in a different format is what I am trying to escape. I went to a social event this weekend and made a real attempt to liston to what people talked about - most of them talked about themselves. When I was in the company of people I felt comfortable with I was interested in them, when I was in the company of people I didnt know very well I couldnt take in what they were saying due to being self conscious. So I guess its all about feeling comfortable with being ourselves which is what I am striving for. I have come a lot closer to this since learning from your attitude - freedom rocks! This has been a real turning point for me - cant thank you enough for that. With reference to your flaw I can identify with that too. Im reading a book at the moment about escaping the victim role. I havent yet worked out how some people seem to be take on this role but in my case I think it maybe because I have a need to cure everyone's problems in order to feel good about myself and prove I am a good person. My book states the obvious - you cannot cure other peoples problems. Its hard to let go - dont know about you but I feel guilty if I do nothing - but my attempts at helping never seem to work and often its not even wanted. A relative gave me advice once - Some things you just have to leave to God. Angels quote:
What my flaw is that I put up with someone longer than I should because I find it hard to believe they're really as mean as they appear to me, and that there might be a soft side there somewhere. |
| Date: 01 Apr, 2007 on 10:49 p.m. |
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Angel
ip: 207.200.116.72 |
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Loner --
-----Your welcome! You can call me Dee or Angel! -----Your post to me is so cool because you put what I also believe into words that really help me in a different way than mine do. The paragraph, starting with "You are so right about asking questions", was so good that I said to myself, "It's even clearer now how I feel." I was at this Birthday party of a friend Saturday and a girl was invited that I'm wasn't sure how I felt about. She's full of sweet, loving words but there's a thought that goes off in my mind that says, "Don't trust her". I can be nice to her anyway but Saturday this girl came late and walked over to the place where I was sitting with my hubby and friends and just stood there by me and didn't say a word to me. I didn't say anything to her right away but she turned to me and said "Are you mad at me?" and I said "No - of course not.". . . . . So later I asked why she said that and she said "Because you didn't jump up and say Hi Susan right away when you saw me" and I answered "That's not the way I am" (especially at someone else's party is what I'm saying to you but didn't say to her)------the point being she expected me to get more excited beyond saying "Hi" Well -I knew she was coming and was ready to talk to her after she's been introduced to everyone(by the Birthday girl) even if I have this voice that warns me to not trust her. Her expectation is what is so far off. Say I gave her what she wanted and jumped up and down in excitement saying "Hi - Hi - Hi". The question I would then be asking myself is who'd be elevated by playing friends that way? I might be hooked in a little temporarily & then she'd sail along in her life thinking her expectations were normal. Wow!
---FREEDOM does rock and your welcome again. -----About feeling guilty, I do sometimes but just consider it an emotion I'll get over when the understanding of the situation comes out, so I put up with it temporarily even though it's not all that comfortable. I've heard it said that good guilt is when we feel in our heart we've done something wrong and actually have, but then bad guilt is when someone else does something wrong we also feel we've done something wrong. I've done that with my sister and picked up what she does and taken the blame cause I don't trust her reactions and anger. One time a while back (when we were still talking) I went to her house & she was planning on taking her daughter somewhere in my car(without asking) and due to several lenghty reasons I said "No" and she then flew around her house like a bat "out of you where" screaming that I didn't care if she died because her car might break down & might not make it to daughter's recreational activity that night. What fun! Not really, but one day I hope to view her antics objectively. The day is getting closer as I get freer from her hook, recognizing how pathetic she really is and look at her as I would look at a movie. -----What is the title of the book you mentioned in your post that you're reading? -----"Some things you just have to leave to God". I like that! (Loners post) Im reading a book at the moment about escaping the victim role. My book states the obvious - you cannot cure other peoples problems. Its hard to let go - dont know about you but I feel guilty if I do nothing - but my attempts at helping never seem to work and often its not even wanted. A relative gave me advice once - Some things you just have to leave to God. |
| Date: 02 Apr, 2007 on 04:24 p.m. |
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Angel
ip: 207.200.116.72 |
| 10. Re:Undoing the damage |
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| A DAILY PRAYER FOR FREEDOM (Part 1) My Lord Jesus, I come to you now to be restored in you; to renew my place in you, my allegiance to you, & to receive from you all the grace & mercy I so need desperately this day. I honor you as my sovereign Lord and I surrender every aspect of my life totally and completely to you. I give you my body as a living sacrifice; I give you my heart, soul, mind, & strength; and I give you my spirit as well. I cover myself with your blood - my spirit, my soul, and my body. And I ask your Holy Spirit to restore my union with you, seal me in you, and guide me in this time of prayer. |
| Date: 03 Apr, 2007 on 09:02 p.m. |
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